Vortex Wars

This is how bonuses are calculated (they say so):

techgump wrote:How are racial capacity bonuses calculated?
There are 6 races that have capacity bonuses (or alterations); Insectoids +10%, Vampires -10%, Pumpkins +15%, Arachnids +10%, Reptiles +10%, and Dragons +10%. You basically take base number for your attack/defense rolls or your spawn rate and multiply this by 1.05 for a 5% bonus, 1.1 for a 10% bonus, and 1.15 for a 15% bonus, rounded down. That means that you won't get a bonus troop for insectoids unless you would normally gain 10 troops.

9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9
10 x 1.1 = 11 --> 11
*Please note for that the racial penalties, totals are rounded up. Multiply by .95 for a 5% penalty, and .9 for a 10% penalty.

But the rounding is in fact equivalent at no bonus in many cases .

9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9 -->> .9 lost
10 x 1.1 = 11 --> 11 --> "fair" case
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 --> 12 -> .1 lost

I suggest to spare those .x

There are 2 ways. Choose your favourite one.

1.
They are not forgoten and are agregated next rounds
Lets say we have :

9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9
6 x 1.1 = 6.6 --> 6
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 --> 12
That would become

9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9 (and .9 for later)
6 x 1.1 = 6.6 +.9= 7.5 --> 7 (and .5)
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 +.5 --> 12 (and .6)



2. They randomly rounded so the average reflects the true percent bonus
Lets say we have :

9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9
6 x 1.1 = 6.6 --> 6
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 --> 12
That would become

9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9 (in 10%) or 10 (in 90% cases)
6 x 1.1 = 6.6 --> 6(40 %) or 7(60%)
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 --> 12 (90%) or 13 (10%)


Why to do this ? it is more "mathematicaly fair". A bonus is a real bonus as presented and each percent is worth it. The points are dispensed in a smoother way.

That system is more scalable 1% 2 % 3% .... each bonus gives really different results.

Of course the amount of the points given by the current system is very low. 10% with the suggested system is way more that the official 10%. Changing that system will imply changing the current race bonus values.

Why is it interesting ? Because it gives the ability to tune bonus and malus more accurately for races. Because it gives the ability of generating more different levels of power for the races.

i agree. Good mathemathics, but i doubt lopdo will implement, current system works.

KivoR wrote:1.They are not forgoten and are agregated next rounds
9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9 (and .9 for later)
6 x 1.1 = 6.6 +.9= 7.5 --> 7 (and .5)
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 +.5 --> 12 (and .6)

2. They randomly rounded so the average reflects the true percent bonus
9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9 (in 10%) or 10 (in 90% cases)
6 x 1.1 = 6.6 --> 6(40 %) or 7(60%)
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 --> 12 (90%) or 13 (10%)

First one means more floating point numbers. No, thanks. Remember that 0.5 + 0.5 = 1 is NEVER true and 0.3 + 0.7 < 1 CAN be true. Why? Check "floating point numbers" in wikipedia. The part about problems.
Second one looks very VW style. If you're lucky you can get 2 instead of 1 unit first turn and then 4 instead of 3. If you're lucky you own the board. I don't like that as well.

KivoR wrote:1.They are not forgoten and are agregated next rounds
9 x 1.1 = 9.9 --> 9 (and .9 for later)
6 x 1.1 = 6.6 +.9= 7.5 --> 7 (and .5)
11 x 1.1 = 12.1 +.5 --> 12 (and .6)

First one means more floating point numbers. No, thanks. Remember that 0.5 + 0.5 = 1 is NEVER true and 0.3 + 0.7 < 1 CAN be true. Why? Check "floating point numbers" in wikipedia. The part about problems.

Absolutly ! And that is what is actually happening right now. But we are using integers so the accuracy is way lower and the error much bigger. Right now we are not losing 0.0000000001 but 0.1

With floats the error will be up to 1 point in the whole game. Wich is a much better accuracy than the current wild rounding.
9 x 1.1 =9 (and .8999 for later)
6 x 1.1 = 6.5999 +.8999= 7(and .4999)
11 x 1.1 = 12 (and .5999)

That error won t appear to the player in most of the cases.

That accuracy error (with floats) is acceptable. The concept is still valid. (The fact that the conceptor chooses it is another point)


But you can fix that accuracy error. Instead of percents and floats you can compute it another way.
In english : "You get one extra point each nth points"
So for 10 % : you get one extra point each 10th points
1% : you get one extra point each 100th points
2% : you get one extra point each 50th points

So if you want to make levels like 1.5% you can phrase it "you get one extra point each 67th points"
67 being an integer you can present it in a more human sentence.

Second one looks very VW style. If you're lucky you can get 2 instead of 1 unit first turn and then 4 instead of 3. If you're lucky you own the board. I don't like that as well.

if you are lucky enough to win all your figths during the first round ...you are lucky again
if you get no extra unit the first turn , you are unlucky .
But any way 10% (current bonus) is very strong with this computation. Rates would be lower and your extra unit at the first round is a rare case.

balderr wrote:i agree. Good mathemathics, but i doubt lopdo will implement, current system works.

Thanks for the compliment. Yes I like mathematics but that is not why we should decide to change or not.

Lets start from an example :
When the spawn rate is 10%, you get 1 extra unit when you get 10 territories.
That is not what I call getting 10% units more. Incorrect blablabla. Semantics. That is not the point.
The rule is "you get 1 extra unit when you get 10 territories." It is not a bug, it is a feature. Maybe it used to be a bug, but "current system works." It is expected to work so.

That system generates a "stage effect" : the bonus gets triggered when you reach a stage. 10 territories in this case.
In matters of attack/defence the effects of the bonus/malus appear (as i have read in this forum if I am not mistaken) in high and balanced fights (in unbalanced fights they are useless in low level fights they are not trigered)

With my suggestion the bonus applies with no stage effect and from the low levels. Example : you get 1 extra unit with 5 territories each 2 turns.

That makes the bonus /malus more powerful. That is right. But that makes it easier to tune bonus values. 1% bonus really means something in any case. You can feel the effects immediatly.
This is interesting because you can make more meaningful bonuses and a real scaling +1% + 2% ... with noticable differences. You can generate more different races.

You can generate more and more powerfull races (the more xp the more bonus... boring) ok. But also more and more specific races. Combinate bonus and malus ! Imagine a race with +2% attack -2% defence and a race with +4% attack and +4 defence. The second one wont be more powerfull, but it will be more specifically oriented to attack.

If you withdraw the "stage effect" you can let races express their specificity much earlier. And create more specific races.

I agree with this guys systems, the first one seems the most fair... but i have demons so don't do it.